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User talk:Isis In De Nile/buildarchive/Build:R/Mo Prepared Shot Ranger
__TOC__ Saved Olde Bickering Rate-a-build Please test and vote on builds. Testing is encouraged but not required. Favored: #Good build--TheDrifter 19:36, 8 February 2007 (CST) #This is a great build. I have always love degen, but i have never really like pure degen, mostly because the degen is capped at -10, and this mixed great degen with a lot of power. Manbeast15 19:15 8 February 2007 (CST) #Works very nicely, good damage etc. Rah 07:06, 9 February 2007 (CST) #Strong build in general which does reasonably high damage while also applying excellent degeneration. Defiant Elements 22:58, 11 February 2007 (CST) #Love it. Played in AB and some Fort Aspenwood with it for a long time. This takes care of pretty much anything very quickly. Touchers are also really easy w/ this (well, way easier, they were easy to begin with) really fun to inty each one of their touches and Natural Stride away to watch the degen kill them :).Cheese Slaya 01:04, 16 February 2007 (CST) #I like it. Energy management, cripple, poison, interrupts, condition removal, self healing, defense. Its great. --NYC Elite 17:00, 16 February 2007 (CST) #Oh, wondering when that elite would get some love. I <3 Name. --Llednar 21:01, 16 February 2007 (CST) #This build works. It has long standing power in AB but I tend to think natural stride is a bit situational. Works against Sins and for running and capping but normally the Sins go after more squishy targets instead - like the monk. PlacidBlueAlien 01:00, 28 February 2007 (CST) #Definatly favoured. --[[User:Sigm@|'SigmA']] 17:01, 16 February 2007 (CST) #Adding GvG tag on it as well. These are becoming more common than burning arrow rangers in top-100 matches. -Auron 12:40, 28 February 2007 (CST) #New rune usage makes it fine. –Ichigo724 19:57, 28 February 2007 (CST) #Wow. I was looking for elite for this build for 2 hours and it's worth it. Good build, from today A-Must on my ranger. - (Abedeus) 14:03, 6 March 2007 (CST) #Same as the Degen Spammer in terms of effectiveness, imo. Wouldn't take this over a BA or Crip though. A meh vote. Moving this to a better name. Removing PvE tag... Barrage > Poison. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 12:04, 14 March 2007 (CDT) #I used a build similar to this with my Jin O_o she just used Kindle arrows instead of apply poison (need to take advantage of Mark of Rodgort ;-)) #Well, I normally run a BAR that has 14 marks, so this wasn't that attractive at first. It does the job, though. I would rather skimp on wilderness survival (6+1) since poison doesn't need to last for 2 days. That's another issue, though, and this is solid enough. Vladimir 02:23, 25 March 2007 (CDT) Unfavored: #-Solus 00:39, 7 February 2007 (CST), Sorry, just don't like it. Doesn't seem to be enought damage output #:Really? I've found this does more damage than the standard 10 pip, softer hitting Burning Arrow/Poison Ranger. This does 3 pips less, but it hits much harder in the actual attacks, while it degens much longer (amid multiple targets as well, to stack up even more damage). Either way, thank you for testing this. Isis In De Nile 01:55, 7 February 2007 (CST) #::That claim cannot be substantiated. Prepared Shot does less damage (2 damage and 3 degen for 4 seconds), but has more recharge. Longer degen? How does that work? Both BAs and Prepared rangers have Screaming Shot and Apply Poison, so that's not true. What it is better at is energy management, but to say that the degen lasts longer is stretching it. -Silk Weaker 17:08, 13 March 2007 (CDT) #:::What? Do I have to show you the numbers? The degen lasts longer because the build has the energy capacity to keep the skills that degen pumping out, while said degen from Screaming Shot is linked to Marksmanship, which can be afforded to be raised five points above a BA. The BA is great for trying to spike a target and I like it for what it does, but it isn't built for continual output. Isis In De Nile 04:12, 18 March 2007 (CDT) #::::Do show me how a BA cannot keep bleeding on a target continually (barring lapses when removed)? I've always had Screaming Shot on a BA...? -Silk Weaker 09:08, 18 March 2007 (CDT) #:::::Why do you put Screaming Shot + Apply Poison + Burning arrow on your bar when it caps at 10 degen? Isis In De Nile 20:50, 18 March 2007 (CDT) #Why the hell do you need prepared shot?? Why not just go Burning Arrow or Cripshot R/Mo like everyone else? Or R/A Malice?--Silk Weaker #Kinda rune heavy. Elite is wasted. Cripshot or Burning Arrow is better. Signet of Malice is unreliable. - Krowman 02:02, 16 February 2007 (CST) #:Thank you for the update. - Krowman (talk • ) 01:48, 1 March 2007 (CST) #^ –Ichigo724 17:01, 16 February 2007 (CST) –Ichigo724 19:57, 28 February 2007 (CST) # --"[[User:Sigm@|'SigmA']] 13:30, 20 February 2007 (CST) #:Ok, Both favors and unfavors? - ''Leader Rat'' 16:44, 20 February 2007 (CST) #I dislike interupts with out an IAS. And on another note, no mention of rez sig for variants. --SBR 01:06, 28 February 2007 (CST) #: You are blind? There is "swap out a skill for rez signet"... And you dislike interrupts - Go ahead, throw out Savage and put Rez on it's place. I guess this vote should be crossed out. - (Abedeus) 19:15, 12 March 2007 (CDT) #::Except that we don't cross out votes. -Auron 19:20, 12 March 2007 (CDT) #:::The rez was after I voted. no needling shot suggested. without Savage shot your build phails. --SBR 01:14, 13 March 2007 (CDT) Discussion Why Prepared Shot? Defiant Elements 18:08, 17 January 2007 (CST) :Because a boy scout is always prepared?? Lojiin 18:16, 17 January 2007 (CST) :Nice name, and looks fairly standard on the whole bleeding-poison thing, with a different elite that I haven't tried yet. Thanks for the suggestion. :P 141.156.87.129 18:20, 17 January 2007 (CST) A+ on the name. High Five!--TheDrifter 20:06, 17 January 2007 (CST) :Haha. Thanks. :) I thought it was clever too.Isis In De Nile 22:10, 18 January 2007 (CST) Hmm, you could run 14 expertise and save your elite slot for burning arrow, crippling shot, broad head arrow etc. Mending touch is nearly always better than Signet of Malice due to, well, other people running mending touch :D — Skuld 14:52, 18 January 2007 (CST) :Mending Touch will eat up the energy gained from prepared shot. Either way, this build is worth keeping since there's no other builds centered around prepared shot, yet. --8765 14:57, 18 January 2007 (CST) ::I wouldn't say something is worth keeping just because it uses a certain elite. — Skuld 15:13, 18 January 2007 (CST) :Mending touch does eat up energy, yes. Also, using Signet of Malice isn't a problem with this build. You can easily slap on two conditions in a single shot and follow up with the 1/4 signet casting time from Malice to clear yourself. Then again, if you really want to use Mending Touch, you really can. Doesn't matter too much. Isis In De Nile 22:15, 18 January 2007 (CST) It is worth keeping beacuse it has good damage output with very good energy mangment.--TheDrifter 17:05, 18 January 2007 (CST) :I'm questioning the idea of keeping a build because there isn't another one like it — Skuld 17:21, 18 January 2007 (CST) ::Well if you want to look at it that way, this build isn't that original. Apply+screaming is a pretty basic (albeit new) combo. Prep shot is just for e-management, which could be using less expertise than 13-14. That's probably the only new thing about it. --8765 17:27, 18 January 2007 (CST) :::I still have to clean this up. The reason I prefer this build over the Burning Arrow ganker type, is that the Burning Arrow builds used in GvG don't have the energy management required for lengthy fights in AB in which you can easily get a dozen people and more constantly coming in from the respawn and thenesome. Likewise, this might also be good for PvE due to the energy management skills. Now it has 11 Expertise as opposed to just 14. (However, I may change this to 9 as opposed to 11. Still experimenting in AB). The difference is just a 12% energy reduction (Generally), which it makes up and easily surpasses in using Prepared Shot which it can spam every six seconds. Ultimately it allows for a better energy managed utility build than those running a single focused elite, while also allowing you to hit harder and apply conditions for a longer period amid multiple targets. For example we can look at the Mending Touch Cripshot. It doesn't hit as hard, degen as hard nor for as long lasting, nor can it cripple a target for as long as this build from a single shot. It can try spamming Cripshot with its +15 energy cost (cut down by Expertise I know, but so does this build), but even then it can only do that so many times before its reserves are depleted. I have not had this problem with the Prepared Shot build. It lets me hit hard. It lets me move fast. It lets me degen all over the place as opposed to just one single target (such as from Burning Arrow), and fire a lengthy cripple, while giving me the option of using Concussion shot if I want. Or just spam Savage Shot every 5 seconds. I can't do that with the other builds.Isis In De Nile 22:10, 18 January 2007 (CST) ::::R/Mos own in AB, sorry. They own in most 1v1/2 situations, to be honest, though it get annoying if they focus cast, but that's when you press Natural Stride and run-away-very-quickly. 2 energy ruins the build's "energy management"?? I beg to differ. Mending Touch costs so little compared to spamming Savage Shot, Burning Arrow and Apply Poison. Pindown is a shit skill. Use Cripshot. The only energy issue ever happens when you use Concussion Shot, which most people, including me, suck at using. By that I mean getting a daze off at least once every 10 seconds on 3/4 or 1 second cast spells. If you can't pull that off, then the skill is quite a waste of a slot compared to Savage. --Silk Weaker :::::Totally disagree. Cripshot for AB is a waste of an elite. It is just as expensive as pindown, doesn't cripple for as long in duration, and the only thing it has going for it is that it can be used through blocking stances. That's about it. Burning Arrow/Poison hits for piddling amounts of damage. Only thing it has going for it is the -10 degen, which is just 3 pips more than this. Nor can it cripple for any worthwhile duration. Furthermore it is aimed at singular ganking. This build can sustain lengthy degen amid multiple targets. Less spike, more pressure. Isis In De Nile 18:32, 16 February 2007 (CST) ::::::Uhhhhh, how is prepared shot better? Actually Barrows are great on AB as well, the damage is significant. Cripshot is essential. Pindown is fucking crap for the last time. Look at the recharge. Cannot be blocked means that it can pretty much laugh at any single warrior, or two if they don't have mending touch. Don't tell all the people that have used cripshots before that it's crap. What does Prepared Shot add to the equation? Damage from Prepared shot doesn't matter that much, rangers aren't about direct damage, part of the reason why Barrow is not my favourite, it is only good becuase of its effect on splits against NPCs and people with weak self heals (healsig, healing breeze, etc). Barrow itself is, imo, relatively weak in the flagstand. I suppose it can help on spikes...? Far stronger in splits. You must not play rangers a lot, it's a lot stronger than on paper. Distracting Shot is also essential. It's a good idea to have at least 1 interrupt recharged or about to recharge, lest you miss something. --Silk Weaker 07:35, 13 March 2007 (CDT) :::::::Cripshot is –not- essential for AB. Nor is Pindown ‘fucking crap’ for AB. Pindown is utility and it’s in the bar to deal with situations in which cripple is applicable and useful. If you still don’t understand, prepared shot is there to deal with better e-management, and boost overall damage by both the damage from the skill and the damage from other skills, plus the bow in general, due to a higher affordable marksmanship skill. If you think rangers shouldn’t worry about direct damage, great. That’s your opinion. I actually think damage should be taken into consideration with the build as a whole, and no factor should be ignored. I do play rangers a lot, thanks for your assumption of superior knowledge. This is why I devised the build for AB, which is in chance also being used for GvG. Savage shot/distracting shot combo is great. You can still do the same with this build if you wanted. It isn’t as essential as you claim however in the chaos and mass player influx of AB, where you’re quickly moving across targets to spread degen. You don’t always have the time or inclination to watch someone like a hawk, where preference is firing off savage shot for pure damage and interruption every 5 seconds or so as you come across someone using a skill or spell. Isis In De Nile 17:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT) Isis In De Nile 17:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT) :You can do all that effciently as a cripshot or BA, enough to not warrant perprared shot. btw, in a vs ranger, or even assassin or W/A duel, Apply -will- get interrupted. Disrupting Dagger ftw -Silk Weaker 02:43, 25 March 2007 (CDT) Where's the daze coming from? Solus 23:07, 18 January 2007 (CST) *Edit*Interupt OR Daze, Didn't see that* Weeelp, I cleaned this up!Isis In De Nile 12:41, 26 January 2007 (CST) Other PvP Areas This build also works for RA. I've tested it on RA and its a super killer against anyone. Mgelo21 7:12,3 March 2007 (CST) Definitely not a GvG build, removing incorrect tag. -Warskull 14:02, 6 March 2007 (CST) :Top 100's are using it? Wanna say why this isn't GvG?--Nog64Talk 18:06, 6 March 2007 (CST) ::I added the GvG tag only after seeing top 100 guilds use this (and definitely more than once). It was not an incorrect tag. It has better energy management and performs better on splits; you have a longer-duration, higher degen combo (burning hits -10, but is costly and lasts only 4 seconds). It was a valid tag, and the build was updated (rune usage) to reflect that. The GvG tag was valid. -Auron 18:10, 6 March 2007 (CST) :: I guess I was wrong with this one. Would you mind citing some guilds you have seen running this so I can go observe it. I have yet to see this run in my time zone so I am guessing it must be a new euro thing. -Warskull 12:28, 7 March 2007 (CST) :::I haven't seen it either, and in any case, is it with the exact bar? I don't like Pindown and the lack of Distracting Shot, otherwise I can see it runnable. BHA is great on team splits, BA on solos, and Cripshot everywhere and flagstand. Energy could help, maybe, but ranger fights don't depend on energy as much because it simply doesn't have the healing to keep up. Max energy won't save you when your heal skill costs 2 energy and takes 3 seconds to activate. Even BHA would be better for cancelling mending touch, even, so I'm a bit dubious if it's a good choice even if it's run by top 100s. By the way, the usual BA bar has screaming shot anyway. Prepared shot really just adds better energy management and some damage, not sure if that's really worth it. -Silk Weaker Ok, this build is favored, for GvG even, but http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:R/Mo_Degen_Spammer is unfavored? What gives?--Lord Oranos 03:59, 10 March 2007 (CST) GvG rly? Despite the fact that top 100 guilds run it.. I think its pretty crappy for GvG's meta... What guild does not run an RC prot? So this would only be used for splits it seems. You'd have to shut down both LoD (anti-repssure) AND the RC for this to see any worth, and pretty much all guilds are running both these days. With burning arrow the 10 degen is a bit more spikish for the 4 seconds it lasts, and if its getting removed anyways, the duration doesn't matter much. (Not a fifty five 08:58, 13 March 2007 (CDT)) Rnagers are strong on spikes. RCs aren't hard to divert/dshot, and there's signet of humility. Also, Lots run ZB and Divert. Apply Poison to spread poison sure beats 5 energy per casting of RC. Just poison + dshot on closest monk. 1 disabled condition removal. -Silk Weaker 09:05, 13 March 2007 (CDT) :Sure but it doesn't beat screaming shot is my point, the BA build also has apply poison. As said earlier, the degen spreader is unfavored and better, why is this favored?(Not a fifty five 09:23, 13 March 2007 (CDT)) ::No, I don't think it's better than the other ranager builds either. Posison Arrow, however, I dislike. -Silk Weaker 09:49, 13 March 2007 (CDT) :::Your argument, naff, is that this is ineffective because of RC monks? How would RC monks not also stop Burning Arrow rangers? These builds are used for ganking or gank defense; in neither situation will you be running across RCs (unless the other team sends a 2- or 3-man split back for you, which is rare). At the stand, neither build is very effective... at ganking, I'd say both are equally effective (although this one is easier to use, as you never run out of energy). -Auron 01:15, 14 March 2007 (CDT) ::::Just pointing out that Burning is more degen than Bleeding, over a shorter period of time. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 11:46, 14 March 2007 (CDT) Scout's armor Scout's armor does not provide the armor bonus while under the effects of a preparation, it gives it while using (activating) so it is kinda useless variant --Gimmethegepgun 14:55, 14 March 2007 (CDT) :Actually I think it gives the bonus while under the effects of a prep. Isis In De Nile 02:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT) ::According to Talk:Scout's armor, User:Buzzer tested it with Wild Blow in a scrim, and it was only while activating :/ –Ichigo724 09:03, 15 March 2007 (CDT) :::That's stupidly hilarious. I'll have to test this myself. Isis In De Nile 13:03, 15 March 2007 (CDT) ::::Tested it for myself, Obelisk did 21 while not under/activating, 18 while activating, and 21 while under effects. Scout's armor = teh suck --Gimmethegepgun 14:54, 16 March 2007 (CDT) * Added the Scout's armor requirements in the Notes area. I also spell checked everything and added links. ;-) The Imperialist ::I need to spell check my own stuff now -.- 4 typos xD Removing GvG tag This is not a GvG build. I'll admit that I have seen a couple top 100's run this before with concussion shot, but never in the even near future and very rarely. This simply doesn't offer the versatility and splittability that other ranger builds do. --Theonemephisto 20:02, 17 March 2007 (CDT) :If being observed as being run by a number of Top 100 guilds in GvG matches doesn't make it a 'GvG Build,' what does? It is obviously being used with some success by some of the best guilds in the game; how can you say that your opinion that it does not qualify supercedes all theirs? I've already re-instated this as a GvG build once, so as not to break GW:1RV, I hope someone else will add the GvG tag back to the build page. - Krowman (talk • ) 20:17, 17 March 2007 (CDT) ::I would not have considered adding the tag if I thought it misplaced. Also, if I only saw it once or twice in guild battles, I wouldn't have thought to add the tag; however, after seeing it used multiple times by multiple guilds, I thought it fitting to add it on. You're correct, meph, in that it's a rare build to see now; but I could probably go through the GvG-tagged builds and remove half of them based on the no-current-use principle. -Auron 04:26, 18 March 2007 (CDT) :::You can argue that we do need to archive many of the GvG builds, but there is a discussion going on about that. This difference is that those were metagame build that were a staple of the game for a ridiculously long time. Has this been even close to that? --Theonemephisto 14:07, 18 March 2007 (CDT) :::lol, archive. I've never even seen them, though. Are you sure pindown is used? I loath that skill. I understand it's documentation and we should add it, but since you've seen it first hand, do you think they were effective and such? Just interested I guess. -Silk Weaker 04:33, 18 March 2007 (CDT) ::::Yes. At first, I wondered why they weren't using Burning Arrow rangers; it quickly became apparent. Burning Arrow rangers don't have the best energy management; they run out of energy unless they take a break between NPCs. This one not only has better energy management, it has better overall degen. -7 constant degen is cheaper to maintain than -10 (6 damage per second difference), and lets you be ready for more situations. Also, pin down was switched out for concussion a few times; Pin Down was used to catch solo flag runners (saw this on frozen and on nomad); the ranger would chase down the opposing team's runner... and kill him. Then go gank. ::::The guilds I saw might have just been those running it to test it out, or just to be different; whatever the reason, it was effective. However, as I seem to be the only one thinking this works in GvG, I'll remove the tag (a final time). -Auron 04:49, 18 March 2007 (CDT) :::::No, no, I see that it could be useful, but I think Concussion > Pindown, and should be switched out as main, pindown as variant. Also, Burning Arrows usualy have Screaming Shot as well, so why do you say it has better overall degen? -Silk Weaker 06:14, 18 March 2007 (CDT) Just because a top 100 guild experiments with a build doesn't mean that it's good or that it's GvG metagame (or ever has been). I admit to seeing these guys around before as conc shot spammers, but they quickly died out due to the fact that rangers have much better roles to fill with their elite. BTW, bow damage sucks.--Theonemephisto 14:05, 18 March 2007 (CDT) :Couldn't agree with you more. Yes bow damage sucks, and a lot of top 100's experiment with builds that are pretty obviously bad. Some top 100's still run R/D RaO scythe but it doesn't lead to a very good pressure in GvG. I've seen a N/D orders necro in a pressure build that failed, and they were rank 40 at the time. --[[User:Lania Elderfire|'Lania Elderfire']] 14:55, 18 March 2007 (CDT) ::Wait until Burning Arrow gets nerfed, and I strongly believe it will (reason: overused, but not overpowered), and then you'll regret not appreciating this build. --8765 15:01, 18 March 2007 (CDT) :::Burning arrow is only overused because of Natural stride, distracting shot, and savage shot. Burning arrow is just the only even semi-decent damage elite that Rangers have. Basically, the reason you take a ranger is because they are semi-invincible with mend touch + natural stride + high armor, they have amazing utility with distracting shot and savage shot, and they can spread conditions cheaply to boot. The only elites used on rangers are either to add damage (burning arrow), add movement control (cripshot), or to add monk-stomping power (Broad head). Distracting shot and natural stride would get a nerf before burning arrow (along with the expertise affected mend touch). --Theonemephisto 15:05, 18 March 2007 (CDT) ::::I hope they don't nerf anything on the ranger, their use in PvP and PvE is fairly limited enough as it is... especially compared to when ranger spike was the meta all the way back then (those were the good old time :-),,, not really) --[[User:Lania Elderfire|'Lania Elderfire']] 18:59, 18 March 2007 (CDT) ::::They better not, unless they bring back distortion or something. Actually.. no... --Silk Weaker 11:35, 29 March 2007 (CDT) Removed PvE tag Why the hell did you remove PvE tag? It's very viable build there, swapping out Pin Down for Res Signet O_o This doesn't make sense at all. - (Abedeus) 15:20, 28 March 2007 (CDT) :Because it is overpowered by a ranger spamming one single skill - Barrage. It's just not enough damage for a PvE setting. Poisoning something with a single shot is completely useless compared to outright destroying them with AoE skills. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 11:22, 29 March 2007 (CDT) ::Not sure, spreading poison is decent even in PvE, and interrupts.. I suppose both have it. Concussion shot would be nice though.-Silk Weaker 11:29, 29 March 2007 (CDT)